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Thread: LISTIA and FAKES

  1. #1
    Member Hyacinth's Avatar
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    Angry LISTIA and FAKES

    As some of you know, I do some authenticating of Coach items over at "another" forum. Over the last year, several other highly-qualified authenticators of Coach and other lines have been going through HE!! trying to get Listia to remove fakes. For a short while they responded to our reports, then started to ignore them and still are. I've told their Mods, several who are members of the "other" forum, that if Listia refuses to take steps to obey US laws and make their site a safe place to buy, I would no longer be authenticating their listings.

    I've also been in touch with another authenticator who I've known and worked with for years and whose experiences have been even more frustrating. She used also work directly with the Listia Mods who have now been given new Rules by the site owners:

    She told me:
    "Listia has now decided that it will not comply with the law and won't be removing fakes UNLESS they are reported by the rights owners. And what rights owners are aware of a small site like Listia to report?

    This is the message that I received from one of the mods:
    Do you think a authenticator would sign a paper saying they are positive the item is not authentic in case it goes to court because I removed the item based soley on their word.

    We are not removing fakes anymore.. without a formal take down or that form filled out.. We are also going to encourage users to report fakes to the designers.. and if they respond with a take down the item will be removed promptly..

    I found the first example of their non-action. A mod posted an authentication request, item was deemed as counterfeit by an expert and rather than remove the fake, they posted a link to the un-authentication, presumably to encourage members to view the link and educate themselves.

    But because of Listia's software set up, outside links are broken when copied into the comments/questions -- they insert spaces into the link so it doesn't work and it doesn't c&p.

    Thus, they're taking advantage of free authentications, but not only are they not removing proven fakes but they are posting broken links, preventing others from viewing it! Members don't know how to close the spaces in the links and in fact, the spaces aren't that obvious that the members would notice them anyway..."


    ...............

    There are dozens of examples of the various excuses and "procedural changes" the owners have used to avoid having to remove fakes. So I posted the following at the "other" forum - I hope there's no problem posting my statement, I won't post the actual link unless the forum Mods here say it's OK but most of you can probably guess where it's posted:

    "Oct 17, 2012 8:49AM - in "Authenticate This Coach"

    Re: LISTIA Authentications
    Once again Listia is washing their corporate hands of any responsibility for keeping illegal counterfeits off their site. And once again I'll be refusing any requests to authenticate their Coach items.

    Previously they have wobbled back and forth about accepting reports by members of fake merchandise which would sometimes, not always, be removed by their Mods. They've now made it known that they will ONLY remove fakes if the affected manufacturer or their VeRO rep reports them and requests removal.

    AFAIK Listia has no in-house VeRO reps like Ebay does, so the chances of any official expert from any company actually seeing Listia's auctions to report them is almost nil. Listia is blubbering that a seller might take them to court for removing a listing that someone such as another member or "unqualified" person reported as fake. (Funny, accepting reports from qualified individuals is okay with Ebay, but not Listia. Of course Ebay had to almost be forced to do it after several lawsuits where Ebay was told that they WERE responsible for keeping fakes off their site, but that's another story).

    So Listia wants only removal requests from the actual corporation OR - believe it or not - from authenticators willing to sign a form accepting legal responsibility for their reports. Ummmmmm, you CAN get those, folks. Their called Professional Authentications, and you have to actually PAY for them, which obviously ain't gonna happen. So their Mods are forced to to ask here for a free service, then post a link back to this post with breaks or spaces in the link that their forum software automatically inserts and which some forum members there have trouble figuring out how to get around. Posting a broken link to a t** post is essentially useless and an attempt to deny responsibity for policing their own site and taking action to remove counterfeits.

    Just as we've been doing with other sites such as iOffer where fakes are allowed to run rampant, I personally will no longer be authenticating any Listia listings for Coach products, either from Listia Mods, bidding members, or anyone who posts photos from a Listia item. What the authenticators for other brands here at t** do is completely up to each individual, but my decision as regards Coach authentications is made. If my opinion (and that of others) is respected enough for Ebay to remove fake Coaches that we report, it should be good enough for Listia.

    For anyone thinking of buying a Coach (or any other highly-faked brand) on Listia, you're on your own. Caveat Emptor.
    "


    And I offer the same advice and explanation to EffenHaute members and readers. If a site repeatedly tries to wash their hands of the responsibility of removing reported and proveable fakes, they don't deserve anyone's business. One iOffer is already one too many.


    Hyacinth
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 10-22-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  2. #2
    eBay scambuster/detective BeenBurned's Avatar
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    Thank you Hyacinth for the heads up. It's a good idea that this post was made because in fact, there is a Listia mod who has come to EH to authenticate some of the listings.

    Supposedly, there are 3 circumstances by which they'll delete listings.
    1. if a seller admits an item is fake
    2. if the seller uses generic "handbag" "brown bag" etc. rather than using brand names in order to stay under the radar
    3. if the seller requests a listing be removed

    But otherwise, listings will remain active.

    It's unfair of a website to take advantage of a volunteer authenticator's expertise and then not remove the listing but instead, post that authentication link in the listing expecting buyers to figure out what the link means.

  3. #3
    Permanently Banned on BBC dslm4's Avatar
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    I think it's very irresponsible behavior to ignored fake. I feel for buyer that will be end up to be the victim here.
    Listia seems to forget the fact that we only here to help, we gained nothing from this, we give our valuable time to help others!!

    Last edited by dslm4; 10-23-2012 at 01:04 AM.
    Spend in Charity, for the benefit of your soul.

    I'm on a bag ban with my Elvis buddy

  4. #4
    Member Hyacinth's Avatar
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    There's an interesting discussion at Ebay's Shoes Purses & Accessories Board on the Listia situation - even though the site wasn't mentioned by name, it didn't take long for a disgusted Listia member to figure out what "venue" was being discussed. If any Listia members or Mods are reading this, they need to read the Ebay post and shove it in the site owners' faces, especially the parts about the legal action taken against Ebay over the years by major companies whose copyrights and trademarks weren't protected by the selling venue, in this case Ebay.
    http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Sho...ses/5200113666

    The Listia member's comments are also interesting:
    " Are you referring to that place where you auction items for credits?
    That place is drowning in counterfeit EVERYTHING these days. Not just purses. Shoes, sunglasses, cosmetics, computers, phones, headphones. You name it. I have a large sum of credits just stored up there because there's nothing I've wanted to spend them on. :/
    I don't really think a venue should be responsible for authenticating everything. If there is a high volume of traffic on a site (like eBay) that quickly becomes impossible. But they should respond appropriately when an item is reported as counterfeit. Clearly this "we'll only listen to the rights holder" BS is just a way to deflect authenticity complaints."

  5. #5
    eBay scambuster/detective BeenBurned's Avatar
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    Just an update and information for anyone who might feel so inclined to report Listia to the appropriate agencies (IC3 and/or the design houses), Listia is not only making sure items are authentic, but they aren't removing listings even when those listings are confirmed as fake, sellers are admitting them to to fake and moderators are posting using both moderator IDs and their own "civvie" IDs stating that items are fake.

    At last count, I had a list of over 40 fake Coach listings and 18 fake Louis Vuitton listings that were obvious fakes. Moderators posted "offering" to end the listings if the seller requested it, but in violation of their own rules, they were letting the listings remain up and running to completion if the seller didn't request they be ended.

    Keep in mind that the more reports submitted to the designers' legal departments and to IC3, the more apt they are to act on them. What Listia seems to be unaware of is that it's not just their sellers who will be liable but they, as the venue will be held responsible for not removing the illegal listings. Ignorance both of the law and of authentic is no excuse.

    In this listing, comments advising that the bag is fake were hidden, INCLUDING comments from Odysseygal2 which is the "civilian" ID of one of the moderators!! Her comment was hidden because the seller didn't like being told her bag was fake, yet the moderator didn't see fit to remove the listing!! (And no Listia and sellers, it's not okay to list the items if they're admitted to be fake! Many of them are doing that too.)

    Rather than ending listings, moderators make this type of post:



    If you choose to put an end to all this drama all you need to do is post a update, or comment, or submit a support ticket, requesting this purses removal or just reply to this message. and I will take care of this for you promptly thanks


    Nov 2nd, 2012 at 6:10:58 PM EDT by Moderator Joe
    http://www.listia.com/auction/665393...-louis-vuitton

    Listia, IMO, has become a domestic/US version of iOffer. What they don't realize is that they (mods and admin) are opening a can of worms by showing that they know items are counterfeit yet are doing nothing about it.

    I wonder whether Listia's pockets are as deep as ebay's were when ebay was successfully sued for allowing the sale of fakes and not doing enough to stop them.
    Last edited by BeenBurned; 11-04-2012 at 02:08 PM. Reason: make easier to read

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